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Post by zepp on Feb 22, 2015 20:33:29 GMT -8
Plan 1: 3 lvl 20 Barter in Westerlands Goal: Gold Trade
Plan 2: lvl 20 Harass/Swindle/Steal camps in Iron Islands Goal: Reaver
Plan 3: 3+ lvl 20 steal camps in different regions Goal: Iron Bank
Plan 4: 2+ lvl 20 Swindle, 1+ lvl 20 Steal camp in different regions Goal: #2 Overall <100 Members
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Post by Alex on Feb 22, 2015 21:18:33 GMT -8
I'm not quite ready to vote on this yet. Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad we're thinking ahead, but I'm not sure what the best choice is until the changes get finalized.
I'd vote plan 2 right now but I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the best way to tackle the AvsA changes.
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Post by zepp on Feb 23, 2015 0:25:53 GMT -8
Don't worry, after the flamewar on the GoTAboards I am sure that they will have some "adjustments" at hand to help sort out AvA for the next cycle.
-- you may have noticed that I haven't voted either, that is, in part, not to bias the poll, but also because I am hoping for some more discussion on the topic.
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Post by sam on Feb 23, 2015 3:00:39 GMT -8
I'm not sure yet either
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Post by Duncan Darke on Feb 23, 2015 4:13:16 GMT -8
Is there any of the titles/prizes an item worth the effort ? Or it's just for the "fame & glory" ? :-) In any case, I have the same issue right now - need to see if they change something significant in the AvA system, before deciding. Strictly from a fun point of view: - #1 is probably a bit more boring than the others - #2 is the one that will bring us the most trouble (i.e. mini-wars with other alliances); but sounds fun to me ! - #3 same as above but probably harder for us to control since it's distributed in several regions (and we'll surely get our arse kicked at least in some of the regions) - #4 sounds the most ambitions, considering the goal; it will probably require the most intense focus
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Post by Cristan Jast on Feb 23, 2015 5:15:23 GMT -8
Totally not ready to vote. I'll have to wait and see how things turn out. Tier 1's don't seem to have much of a chance. Offense is expensive and I know I won't be able to contribute diddly squat on the silver front. I might be in half decent shape for CP by then but still a long way off what I want to be. As Duncan said, if the prizes aren't worth it for anything more than glory? I'd be tempted to go on strike and not bother until they fix it
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Post by Alex on Feb 23, 2015 8:32:42 GMT -8
Cristan brings up a good point, we probably don't have the combined CP for an offensive campaign this coming AvsA. I'd probably suggest plan one but three 20's is optimistic at best. I'd probably vote trying for a 5, 10 and 20 in the westerlands. I'll try to update my portion of the spreadsheet tonight, maybe an idea of where we at with mats might help with what we do.
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Post by Cristan Jast on Feb 23, 2015 10:00:05 GMT -8
Yeah I haven't looked at the spreadsheet yet. Honestly don't have a whole lot to contribute yet as most of my constructions are going for personal use. I have a few things in the Seige Works but honestly? All I'll be able to do on the next AvA is garrison some decent swords
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Post by zepp on Feb 23, 2015 23:56:51 GMT -8
I updated the off-cycle spreadsheet to reflect plan 1.
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Post by Colwynn Snow on Feb 24, 2015 8:15:12 GMT -8
So, after thinking about things as they are, I find myself wanting to field an idea. We are a tier 1, and i like that. With the challenge before us of working with the broken system they have given us, my plan is pretty simple. We build 1 camp, I'm going to say harass in Iron isles, because we are Paying the Iron Price after all. We garrison it heavy, and focus on just the one camp. Have grunts stationed for defense, and use specialists for on hours. We constantly raid while active, and I'll try and line us up some aid support for damage control. It will take an active thread update on targets. AvA is going to be a mess for awhile I'm afraid, but I don't want to roll over and give up. After the 1 camp is leveled to 20, we assess things, and see if it's worth building another camp. We would then most likely build a steal camp, to give some of our intrigue specialists some benefit from the camp to help us along with a sub goal of the Reaving reward. The big thing is, heavy repeating from everyone on offensive actions to try and get enough average actions to possibly get relentless. If the active combat model they are pushing down our throats is what they plan to stay with, this is my option I give. Alternatively, we could go back to the reach, build a support camp and try for peacemaker again. Either way, it would be a similar proposal from me, just different on the types of camps. I'd say Aid for our focus camp if we went to the reach, then branching into Barter. I think the micro focus of one camp, and hoping for a regional or most averaged actions prize is where our best chances are right now. Weigh in and let me know where you stand.
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Post by Alex on Feb 24, 2015 8:23:03 GMT -8
Maybe we should do another off phase. I feel like most of our active players just RI'd and maybe another month might be what we need. I'm cool either way but maybe we just go to level 5's or something like that. Or just do one offensive camp for fun and evacuate it if it gets hairy, I'm calling that the col plan. Frankly I'd rather just do like a single harass camp to just have fun but you almost have to have at least two just to get enough CP in play to be effective. Ultimately I think we take time to get our strong players up to speed again without making this stressful for everyone.
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Post by tremond on Mar 6, 2015 6:24:16 GMT -8
With this last 'off-cycle' I burned through a lot of trade resources… around 300 traders… because the only type of camp we opened was trade…. and we opened 8 of them. Even getting all of them to lvl 5 took a fair amount of resources - which is why we stalled on the 1 camp we were going to level to 20… we got held up because of not having enough traders of all things. Which, by the way is join got be an issue now that stage 1 doesn't exist. We can't skip the high numbers of basic units (traders, eavesdroppers, militia)
On that note I suggest that everyone constantly have those 3 buildings churning out basic units at all times unless you need to work on something specific for something else. Those will be the challenge for us second only to the siege works - due to the sheer volume of numbers required.
Also with this in mind I suggest we diversify with any plan we choose. Whatever region we decide to open up in to begin with - open up 3 camps…. not 1. We will only hamstring ourselves with very few Garrison numbers while trying to level the 1 camp. The benefit of a small alliance is being able to effectively co-ordinate our actions… so have 3 open but prioritize actions and resources to which camp we want to level first. And those 3 camps should be of different types base stats: 1 battle, 1 trade, 1 intrigue.
Our next step of opening up in multiple regions…. we can be a bit more picky about types of camps to open but again we stand the best chance of opening different types of camps if we actually want to be able to level them effectively. However, after the first region with 3 camps… we don't need to worry about opening multiple camps in a particular region because the first region can supply the spoils so garrison numbers isn't as much of an issue except for the bartering actions needed to level the camps.
So my thought is more along the lines of
Open up Harass, barter, steal (maybe) in Iron Islands…. and Aid, Barter, spy in the Reach. That way if we need to take offensive actions in the The Reach - we can use the spoils in Iron Islands camps… and vice versa… friendly actions in Iron islands provides spoils for the Reach.
I worry about having an 'offensive only' region… we've had great success making allies with big alliances and flying a bit under the radar with beneficial actions. If we choose an aggressive route (which might be a lot of fun!) we'll need to be very selective about how we choose targets… and then we'll need to either farm empty camps. Or choose a target and beat it into submission until they either give up and abandon the camps or they sue for peace… then we rinse and repeat with a new target.
I personally think the farming empty camps approach is still very viable… they've nerfed it a bit - sure… but not nearly as much as I think people believe.
Just a few of my thoughts.
Tre
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Post by Alex on Mar 8, 2015 13:53:22 GMT -8
I think there's two problems with this approach.
1. I don't think we can support multiple regions effectively. Full disclosure I haven't checked the spreadsheet in awhile but I think if we open multiple regions we will stall.
2. And what's the point of multiple regions? Is it a certain prize or VP or what that we are after? I don't mind helping our allies but are they going to turn around and help us win a region?
Personally I think we need to choose our goal for an active AvsA first ie go for aid, offensive camps for fun, or work with a designated ally, and then are actions are dictated by that. I'm going to use Aid for now because I thought we'd kinda talked about it but I'd recommend two camps of aid so that there effects add together. And then a third of either spy or barter. We take one aid yo 20 and leave the other at approx 10. The spy/barter and extra aid are for CP.
I'm all for going offensive but not as a side project. We won't get the camps high enough to be strong and they will require constant maintenance. I'd much rather start out going offensive and just have fun with it but be fully committed. I think we have to be ready to lose all our SS's when we go.
Ultimately what I'm trying to say is pick your strategy and base our tactics off that. My personal thought is that we're still just a bit weak from RI's to be good offensively but we should contact our allies and see who wants tons of aid in thev reach and then just churn out aid.
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Post by zepp on Mar 8, 2015 18:27:50 GMT -8
I think there's two problems with this approach. 1. I don't think we can support multiple regions effectively. Full disclosure I haven't checked the spreadsheet in awhile but I think if we open multiple regions we will stall. 2. And what's the point of multiple regions? Is it a certain prize or VP or what that we are after? I don't mind helping our allies but are they going to turn around and help us win a region? Personally I think we need to choose our goal for an active AvsA first ie go for aid, offensive camps for fun, or work with a designated ally, and then are actions are dictated by that. I'm going to use Aid for now because I thought we'd kinda talked about it but I'd recommend two camps of aid so that there effects add together. And then a third of either spy or barter. We take one aid yo 20 and leave the other at approx 10. The spy/barter and extra aid are for CP. I'm all for going offensive but not as a side project. We won't get the camps high enough to be strong and they will require constant maintenance. I'd much rather start out going offensive and just have fun with it but be fully committed. I think we have to be ready to lose all our SS's when we go. Ultimately what I'm trying to say is pick your strategy and base our tactics off that. My personal thought is that we're still just a bit weak from RI's to be good offensively but we should contact our allies and see who wants tons of aid in thev reach and then just churn out aid. Right now the plan is set for a lvl 20 Barter & Aid in the Reach with a lvl 4 Aid as a side. If you look at the bottom of the current spreadsheet our goals are listed.
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