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Post by Duncan Darke on Feb 10, 2015 4:29:28 GMT -8
Hey guys, in the old DW forum I had a thread running about RI strategy. It had some interesting Q&A and tips from some of our heavy RI-ers. I would like to put this up again, and start debating on how to achieve the most out of one's RI cycles (fastest ways, top benefits from perm talents, etc.) I hope people RI-ing will share their experience here, so all of us could benefit - thanks in advance !
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Post by Duncan Darke on Feb 10, 2015 4:53:17 GMT -8
Ok, let's start with the ORDER in which we can tackle RIs. I will use Zayne's excellent list as a starting point for third discussion. His priority list assumes that one will do more than just the Fealties (otherwise, the RIs for fealties can be done fairly straightforward).
From the breakdown below, it seems we can classify RI cycles like this: - low (only Set 2) - average (Sets 1-5) - high (Sets 1-8) - extreme (all Sets)
Set 1 (8 RI): Sand Steed --> Martell - 8 x RI for 24% Quest speed - mandatory first RI set for anyone looking to do lots of RIs - any level requirement for this (apart from 10 gold) ?
Set 2 (8 RI): Fealty Buildings - 8 x RI to open all houses - only 6 if you perm the point for your current Fealty and can wait to open the 8th when you settle in your final house - requirements: level 13 in that RI
Set 3 (8 RI): Command Points - 8 x RI for 8 extra CP - is this really worth spending so much time doing an RI to level 90 ? - by the time you do 8 of these, you can finish your entire RI cycle and level up to compensate for 8 extra CPs (Sam's style - huge character level)
Set 4 (8 RI): Arms of the Kraken --> Greyjoy - 8 x RI for 24% Adventure speed - huge boost for later in the game; could be skipped if one wants to settle in house Greyjoy - requirements: level 35 in that RI
Set 5 (8 RI): "Winter is coming" --> Stark - 8 x RI for 24% faster SS recovery - I have placed it above the next 3 sets (compared to Zayne's list), because there are only 8 RIs needed - requirements: level 23 in that RI
Set 6 (24 RI): Manufacturing Speed - 8 x "Descendants of the First Men" (16% faster Units prod.) --> Stark; req. lvl 35 - 8 x "Queen Nymeria" (16% faster Weapons prod.) --> Martell; req. lvl 35 - 8 x "Stewards of the Reach" (16% faster Armor prod.) --> Tyrell; req. lvl 35
Set 7 (24 RI): Manufacturing Quality - 8 x "Ours is the Fury" (16% chance better results Units) --> Baratheon; req. lvl 23 - 8 x "Fire and Blood" (16% chance better results Weapons) --> Targaryen; req. lvl 23 - 8 x "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" (16% chance better results Armor) --> Martell; req. lvl 23
Set 8 (24 RI): Other Speed - 8 x "Harvest" (16% faster Resource prod.) --> Tully; req. lvl 35 - 8 x "Bran the Builder" (16% faster Buildings constr.) --> Stark (10 gold) - 8 x "Growing Strong" (8% faster Consumables prod.) --> Tyrell; req. lvl 23 - I have split this from set 6, because it seems less important - even the buildings boost, it becomes useless once you build them all; also, 8% for Consumables might not be worth it at all
Set 9 (64 RI): Ability Bonuses - 8 x each house, to improve 8 of the 9 specialties with 16% (everything except Steal)
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Post by zepp on Feb 10, 2015 7:49:48 GMT -8
There are also:
+Set 5 (+8 RI): Save the Sworn Swords! - 8 x "Victory March" (16% faster dead SS replacement) --> Baratheon (Level 35) Ac
Set 10 (24 RI): PtP Silver - 8 x "We do not Sow" (Increased PtP silver damage for Fight, Harrass, and Steal) --> Greyjoy (Level 23) - 8 x "Iron Price" (Increased PtP silver rewards) --> Greyjoy (10 Gold) - 8 x "Blood of the Dragon" (PtP silver protection) --> Targaryen (Level 35)
Set 11 (64 RI): PtP Silver Protection - 8 x each house (Level 17, for a total of 9,600 silver protection)
Set 12 (64): Silver management - 8 x "Hear me Roar" (16% less silver to produce weapons) --> Lannister (Level 23) - 8 x "Rich as a Lannister" (16% less silver to produce armor) --> Lannister (Level 35) - 8 x "A Lannister Always Pays His Debts" (16% less silver to produce units) --> Lannister (10 Gold) - 8 x "Decree" (24% less silver for construction and upgrades) --> Baratheon (10 Gold) - 8 x "Red Flame" (24% more silver from quests) --> Targaryen (10 Gold) - 8 x "Garden's Thorns" (16% less silver to recruit Sworn Swords) --> Tyrell (10 Gold) - 8 x "Family, Duty, Honor" (24% more silver from selling weapons and armor) --> Tully (Level 23) - 8 x "Merchant Transportation" (16% less silver to buy weapons and armor) --> Tully (10 Gold)
(Although Sets 12, 13, and "Bran the Builder" are almost completely useless once you have finished your RIs and reached level 250ish).
I have also heard of some people opting to RI a specialty speed boost (such as spy), which allows you to break out of the gate with +48% speed boost in Spy without reaching level 30.
Non-RI is 0 RI (stay the same character for the long haul) Dragon-RI is 4 RI (five fealty buildings needed for the dragon) Normal-RI is 7 RI (all the fealty buildings) Command-RI is 15 RI (fealty buildings and command points) Speed-RI is 31 RI (fealty buildings, CP, Sand Steed, and Arms of the Kraken) Power-RI is 95 RI (Speed-RI and Abilities) Bran-the-Builder-RI is 176 RI (Sets 1-9 except for "Bran the Builder" and "Victory March") Max-RI is 336 RI (all fealty talents) Omnimax-RI is 901 RI (all talents)
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Post by Alex on Feb 10, 2015 20:42:52 GMT -8
Nice post dunc I really like how you broke this down.
Here's my two cents:
Everything in my mind depends on what you want to finish at. If you finish greyjoy you don't need to RI the adventure speedup, and I think that's the most useful perk outside the fealty houses and possibly ability percentages. If you want to end stark then maybe you do the fealtys, the arms of the kraken and any other ability percentages you might want.
I think all the silver stuff is pointless, once you level enough silver is never a problem, and most of the speed up stuff is too. Doing 8 RI's for sand steed is pointless and counterproductive unless your doing the mega RI you proposed, or for someone like Z who wants to do a ton.
I do think winter is coming could really REALLY be important. Tell me what you think but I've noticed that one problem with offensive attacks is the blowback damage if you lose, and the cumulative damage you take in waves. It's not uncommon now with all the speedups to be able to send your next attack before your guys can heal from the last wave. Having that ability to heal seems really nice for AvsA.
So for me when I RI next it will be for the ninth fealty, tully, probably the sabo ability %'s and winter is coming and finish greyjoy. But I might do barter instead of sabo as a secondary ability, I'm not sure.
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Post by zepp on Feb 11, 2015 0:03:10 GMT -8
Nice post dunc I really like how you broke this down. Here's my two cents: Everything in my mind depends on what you want to finish at. If you finish greyjoy you don't need to RI the adventure speedup, and I think that's the most useful perk outside the fealty houses and possibly ability percentages. If you want to end stark then maybe you do the fealtys, the arms of the kraken and any other ability percentages you might want. I think all the silver stuff is pointless, once you level enough silver is never a problem, and most of the speed up stuff is too. Doing 8 RI's for sand steed is pointless and counterproductive unless your doing the mega RI you proposed, or for someone like Z who wants to do a ton. I do think winter is coming could really REALLY be important. Tell me what you think but I've noticed that one problem with offensive attacks is the blowback damage if you lose, and the cumulative damage you take in waves. It's not uncommon now with all the speedups to be able to send your next attack before your guys can heal from the last wave. Having that ability to heal seems really nice for AvsA. So for me when I RI next it will be for the ninth fealty, tully, probably the sabo ability %'s and winter is coming and finish greyjoy. But I might do barter instead of sabo as a secondary ability, I'm not sure. The crafting speedups could be very useful for preparing for AvA, and the bonuses for crafting can also help out. I agree that sets 1, 10-12, and "Bran the Builder" are pretty useless when you are finished, however, Sand Steed is essential if you want to go for more than 20 RI.
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Post by Duncan Darke on Feb 11, 2015 9:41:16 GMT -8
Now let's talk a bit about the most useful items for RI, as well as the overall strategy - in terms of SS specialization and the like. Seems clear that you should maximize Speed over any other things - and maybe only Quest speed in particular.
Considering you will do, say, 10+ RIs with different fealties, question is: - should you maximize speed for only 1 specialty, like Spy or any Battle (for which you have bonuses from buildings) ? - or should you aim for getting speed up for all specialties, considering you might use different during RIs (depending on the fealty) ?
Answer to the question above influences what items you buy for your Character, and with what SS type you will do most of your Quests during any RI. Case in point; what option would be best for a longer RI cycle (10+):
- HAND: Podrick's Axe, with 5% to any attacks ? Oathkeeper, for 5% to only Quests and Adv. ? or one of Needle / Daenerys' Whip / Tyrion's Crossbow for 7% faster Battle/Trade/Intrigue respectively ? - ARMOR: one of Rob Stark's Armor / Khal's Drogo's Gold Belt / Daenerys' Wedding Dress for 5-7% faster Battle/Trade/Intrigue respectively ? or something more all-round like King Robert's Armor, that gives 6% but only for Adventures ? - UNIT: Direwolf Patriarch, for 9% speed but just for Quests ? or Dragon Egg for bonuses to everything ? or one of The Mountain Horse / Littlefinger's Ship / The Valyrian for 7% faster Battle/Trade/Intrigue respectively ?
I am currently thinking of using a more all-around approach, even if it means a few less speed % here and there. For Units is simple, I could buy the Direwolf just for the RI cycle, but should use the Dragon Egg for the rest. But for Hand is much more difficult. I currently have the Valyrian Greatsword that still seems the best all-around item, but it has no speed bonuses. Should I buy Podrick's Axe, just for RIs ? Same for Armor; I currently have Bran's Tunic, that gives 5% strength and 3% speed to Adventures only. And it doesn't seem to be any armor that gives quest speed bonuses only, nor overall attack speed...
Pretty much the same case for SS. Should I only equip a few with speed-increasing items, and leave the rest with their own Peerless items ? I plan to have 18 SS perm-ed, 2 for each specialty - so I can be prepared for everything, when I'm done :-) So their items currently are the best I can craft/find, for each specialty (I will post that later on).
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Post by zepp on Feb 11, 2015 11:19:58 GMT -8
I am going as broad as possible, however I am focused on Spy, so I use Arya's Water Dancing Sword, Daenerys's Wedding Dress, and Dragon Egg.
With these and some seals I have 7% General 12% Intrigue 2% Spy Which means that on spy actions I will have 21% speed boost out of the door.
The goal is to do the best with the budget you have. The goal for RI is to go as quickly as possible. Val will be waiting for your when you are finished with RI.
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Post by Duncan Darke on Feb 11, 2015 13:24:15 GMT -8
So basically try to focus on one specialty and do all RIs with that ? In your case, will you do all quests using Spy action ? That means using "fastest" Spy set for both character and your SS...
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Post by Cristan Jast on Feb 11, 2015 17:19:44 GMT -8
It's a great post for the serial RI crew. Like Alex I'm just opening the fealties so not sure if I really have anything to contribute to the discussion but I do find it an interesting read. Please carry on
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Post by zepp on Feb 11, 2015 18:17:33 GMT -8
So basically try to focus on one specialty and do all RIs with that ? In your case, will you do all quests using Spy action ? That means using "fastest" Spy set for both character and your SS... You want to be as broad as possible, but I am trying to do that with as little gold as possible, so this is the formula that worked for me. 22% to all actions is the magic number, and I will likely move in that direction, picking up Seals of the Seven as I RI and possibly Picking up Podrick's Axe to replace Arya's Water Dancing Sword and rethinking my armor. i will take a break after 32 RI, I think, to Evolve my Dragon, which will change my math and allow me to use a non-speed general purpose armor.
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Post by Alex on Feb 11, 2015 19:26:06 GMT -8
I think a lot of this discussion hinges on your play style and what you find fun. I get the impression Z really enjoys the crafting and building aspect which shows through in his approach. Ultimately I think your approach to your RI's needs to reflect that. I think that's what I like most about this game is that there are so many ways to play it and those ways can change.
I think I've become more focused on AvsA because after my dragons I'm not sure what else I'd do but two months from now things could be really different. I keep waiting for ptp to change because I really think it could be fun. This is a fun discussion though cause I personally like hearing other ideas that can affect how my plans.
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Post by zepp on Feb 12, 2015 10:25:04 GMT -8
Reports from day one.
Preamble: I was working on the spreadsheet and permaing items last night, so I started my RI slightly later than planned.
I played less today than I would have liked (about 15m throughout the day and an hour and a half just before bed) and so I am still on my first Sand Steed run.
I really like Sand Steed. If you plan to do the fealty houses and command points, I would say that the time would not be wasted.
PermaSS make life easier. I have found that having high level peerless SS is a definite boon. Most BB I can come close to completing with five hits.
Master Adventurer. I also have found that having the point in Master Adventurer was exceptionally helpful. Using the adventure party after level five allowed me to keep my silver and resource reserves up.
So, still going more slowly than I would like, but am getting the hang of the RI spiral. I find myself constantly checking to make sure I need adventures before throwing bread at them, but that is part of the learning curve.
Edit: oops, forgot to pick up my ValDag... but finished the first cycle.
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Post by Duncan Darke on Feb 12, 2015 12:42:21 GMT -8
Question about Master Adventurers: if I won't wait until lvl 500 to perma one point in it, I wonder if it's worth perma-ing a Journeyman point (only +10 in the party). On the other hand, is it really that useful, considering you don't have that many CPs anyway ? How many SS can you send out adventuring, more than 10 ? Those can conceivably be done by hand :-) Also, at level 20, you can put a point in Novice Adventurers, if you really want a party... But, if this is really that useful (you will know quite well, soon) - should I perma it, instead of the current fealty building ? That means re-doing my fealty (Baratheon) again, for that point...
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Post by zepp on Feb 12, 2015 18:01:55 GMT -8
Question about Master Adventurers: if I won't wait until lvl 500 to perma one point in it, I wonder if it's worth perma-ing a Journeyman point (only +10 in the party). On the other hand, is it really that useful, considering you don't have that many CPs anyway ? How many SS can you send out adventuring, more than 10 ? Those can conceivably be done by hand :-) Also, at level 20, you can put a point in Novice Adventurers, if you really want a party... But, if this is really that useful (you will know quite well, soon) - should I perma it, instead of the current fealty building ? That means re-doing my fealty (Baratheon) again, for that point... Master Adventurer or Journeyman Adventurer are helpful for speeding up the process. You have five CP at level 5 and by level 50 you have fourteen (if you RI for the CP you can have 13 at level 5). That isn't that long of a period actually. It saves you talent points, for speed-ups, and makes resource gathering generally easier. I would not say it is essential, but it is very beneficial. Is it worth an extra RI? It depends on your goals and your playstyle.
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Post by zepp on Feb 13, 2015 18:17:56 GMT -8
Report from day 2
I am down to 1320 bread, but have nearly finished my second RI.
It is important to take breaks, and that works best when you have 3-4 quests going. (saving 8 bread for an hour break!) My first time I did not touch the other chapters, this time, however, I worked on all of the chapters (no bread outside of 1) and found that it helped with power-leveling to 30 and keeping funds and resources up to upgrade the buildings.
I also tried to focus on intrigue buildings the first time. The second time I chose the cheapest upgrades. This did not affect my power too adversely and allowed me to level slightly quicker.
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